EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH BILL TILLER

BLACK TEA AND CARBON
By Santiago Mendez

We all heard the thousands of dialogue lines on The Dig (maybe without paying any special attention to them) but there a was a little group of people at LucasArts who had to cut, edit, process and masterize all of these lines manually (one by one). One of these fearless heroes is Julian Kwasneski who worked on The Dig as a voice editing assistant. He worked on voice editing and sound design on the most brilliant games that LucasArts has produced, like: Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, The curse of Monkey Island, Outlaws, Escape from Monkey Island and also worked on most of the Star Wars games.

Can you tell us a little about yourself? and how did you started drawing?

I am 38-year-old father of three who grew up in the Midwest, mostly the Chicago area, then went to high school and art school in Los Angels and Orange County (And we didn't call it THE OC, just OC. That shows stinks anyway. Don't watch it). I always mention I went to the Cal Arts Character animation program because it was the single most influential event of my life. The Cal Arts teachers and student taught me so much and I would not be good artists today if I hadn't gone there.
I got recruited to work on the Dig with Brian Moriarty, that didn't work out so well, then I did a short stint on Rebel Assault, Super Return of the Jedi, and Indian Jones' Greatest adventure. Sean Clark picked up the pieces of Brain's Dig and did a masterful job of making a good story out of it. Then I got to work on my dream project The Curse of Monkey Island. Then my first 3d games, Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Helped design a sequel to Full Throttle called Full Throttle: Payback. That was shelved in place of Full Throttle 2: Hell on Wheels, then I got moved on to Bounty Hunter which I wasn't happy about, so I found another job in Seattle art directing Guildwars for Arena.Net. But I got home sick and took a job with Stormfront for a year as art director on The Two Towers game. I took a year off after that, to work on the demo for a A Vampyre Story, my game, to come out possibly in 2006. And in the mean time I am a consulting art director for Midway in San Diego.

Well, as far as we know, you got a job in LucasArts because of The Dig (Brian Moriarty's). How did this happened?

The head of the LEC art department, Collette Michaud, came to Cal Arts and saw my portfolio which had a lot of 2d computer animation on it that I had done using Dpaint Animator on the Amigas. And she needed animators for the 2nd Dig. Spielberg. George Lucas. A dream come true, right! Yes and no. Though Cal Arts is a great school they don't teach you about the work place and politics and the like. I kind of got a crash course in it. Games were going through a transition at that time, from games done by a few programmers with little art, to becoming full blown animation productions where the artist out number the programmers four to one. Add in to the mix the enormous pressure of what a Spielberg/ Lucas project should be like, internal jealous about the hype and you have a recipe for disaster.
So ultimately that version of the game got canceled. That would be two in a row. The first dig had great art and I heard was not fun to play because of tedious game play elements. But I wasn't there at the time so I don't really know.

Did you had the chance to talk to Steven Spielberg?

No. But I did get a letter from him thanking us for all the hard work.

How was it like working with Bill Eaken?

Fun, never boring, often times dramatic and I always learned something from him. We get along great. We still have long conversations and we are going to work together again on my game A Vampyre Story. On the Dig, Bill had just come off of working on Indy Fate. He liked it but didn't care for the structure of the production. He wanted more control and more input on the art direction and design. So he worked out a deal with Brain Moriarty to get more involved in the creation of the game, and all went along swimmingly for a while. But they literally had creative differences, both had strong personalities, and they began to rub each other the wrong way. We all know this happens a lot in any creative endeavor. There is a saying in the film industry if you want to ruin a friendship just make a movie together.
So about two thirds of the way through the game, when Bill had finished all the art he needed to do in the game, he left Lucas Arts to pursue other outside illustration projects.

Bill is a very smart and thoughtful artist, energetic and full of ideas. He likes to work in a clear and steady structure with as little distraction as possible. When he was working I didn't bug him. But when he took breaks we would have long conversations range from physics, religion, and art, to movies, animation and games. It was joy to work with him and I was sad when he left. But we kept in touch and now will be working together again.

What can you tell us about the "making of"? How was a regular day at LucasArts?

First off we had a cool building. Environment is important to me and it can affect my mood. B Building, as it was called, was a great environment for me. It had open spaces broken up by walls and offices in random configuration. It was painted kind of dark but was well lit form windows and the warm overhead lights. Plants and art hung everywhere and it just had a creative feel about it. Plus lots of Star Wars matte paintings were hung on the walls, as well as prop and set pieces from ILM and LucasFilm. It was very cool and I felt lucky to have the job there. I was surrounded by great talent. Peter Chan sat near by, Paul Mica was around the corner, and Bill Eaken was behind me. Steve Purcell would come in once in a while. Larry Ahern and Anson Jew were lead animators at the time. It was a tremendously creative place, and I learned a lot.
My desk was in bad location because people walked right behind me, I was sort of out in a hallway. But it turns out to have had a positive effect. All the people walking by saw my art and animation. So I quickly impressed a lot of people inside and outside the art department.

What do you think about Brian Moriarty and Sean Clark?

I like and dislike them both. Brian was fun to talk with and was very energetic and was full of good ideas, but he and I started to rub each other the wrong way due to our disagreement over how the art should be done. I wanted the art organized in a tight budget and have it all preplanned out, just like in a typical animation production, and so did my boss, who mandated I push for an organized art schedule. Brian bristled at being restricted with his creativity. He felt that the creative process was hindered by art schedules and strict budgets. And they were and he was right. But the days of just a two or three people making a game was over, and the days of large productions and big budgets was dawning, and I feel Brian had a hard time adjusting to this new age. This is ultimately what killed Brian's Dig.

Sean and I did not get off on the right foot. Tension between the art department and the project leaders was very high at the moment. But I was determined to get this game out, FINALLY! So I sucked it up, made nice and decided I was going to put all the rivalries aside and do what was right for the game. Some people misinterpreted this as weakness and giving in, when really it was compromising for the best interests of the project.

So once Sean started to trust me we got along really well. We are a lot a like -sensitive, stubborn, passionate- so we butted heads but we had respect for each other and that ultimately is what got the game done, mutual respect and trust, and the willingness to compromise.

There is a spot in Cocytus that is my personal favorite so: Did you draw the "underwater cavern"?

No, Bill [Eaken] did that one, though I made some adjustments to it later when we needed to make the room a bit bigger. You can tell the difference between my art and bills because his is better and he use three colors and I use generally just two. In the underwater cave Bill used aqua blue, purple and green, where as I would have just used green and blue.

Did you participated in the "Pizza orgy"?

Oh yes, one for Brian's Dig and the other for Sean's. Both were stressful. At the first one I started playing the game because I hadn't seen a build of it in months and there was a lot of animation I had done I never got to see working in the game, so I started going through the game quickly with John Knolls, another artist there. I was showing him the game when a programmer came up to me asked me to stop playing, or to give someone else a turn. This puzzled me. Afterwards I found out that there was a crash bug that I was rapidly moving toward and the programmer didn't want me to expose it. But they didn't tell me that so I was puzzled by their request and really bothered by it. If they had just asked and explained the problem, I would have obliged. But the artist and project leader rivalry I guess hindered any sort of trust we had left on that team. And then later that night after inquiring where Brian was, the VP of LEC pulled me aside and told me he had resigned. So that was my first Pizza orgy and it was not a good experience. The Day of the Tentacle one we had was a lot better!

The 2nd pizza orgy was hard too because a lot of the PCs we rented for the night were not ready and weren't working properly, so it had to start late, which put people in a bad mood. Also by this time the company had '"The Dig Fatigue" and were tired of seeing it and were ready to rip it a new one. So our feedback was pretty negative and hurt moral quite a bit. I knew we were making a good game, and Sean did too. I think a lot of people on the project knew that so the animosity that many felt toward the game because it had failed two times before we didn't let it get to us, and kept plugging away. But that pizza orgy did confirm to me that mixing 3d and 2d was a mistake, -many people commented on that. I has suspected as much and wanted as little 3d as possible. But 'the powers that be' felt 3d was the way to go due to the success of Rebel Assault, and so I was overruled. Oh well, you win some, and you lose some.

What things have you learned from "The Dig" experience?

A ton. I learned I need to control my emotions at work. I learned that if you want to make your life easier get on a project that the company loves, like Full Throttle (which I loved a lot too!). I also learned that when dealing with high expectations, don't overreach, don't let the reputation of the game overwhelm you. Spielberg's name was a tough thing to have attached to his project because people have expectations associated with him. The general public thought this was going to be a live action/ 3d interactive movie, not an adventure game. So I learned one needs to put that stuff away and just make the best game one knows how. I also learned communication is important and to never assume anything. And that everything is your responsibility.

I went to colleges for four years to learn how to be an animator. I went to college again when working on the Dig to learn how to be a game maker. I made tons of mistakes, and I learned from them and am applying them to the future. The Dig was learning experience I would wish on no one, however. But as Nietzsche said: "That which does not kill you makes you stronger." I am stronger and wiser because of The Dig.

Any anecdotes from that project?

One thing we did do that keep the stress at bay was play a lot. We had a big open space where new cubicle were going to go and we used it o play remote control car soccer. We had a play station and played Tekken and NFL a lot to. But my favorite way to keep things light was to launch a surprise Nerf ball attack on unsuspecting programmers. We'd start a fight till everyone was involved and Nerf toys were raining from the air. It was quite fun. This would last about five minutes and then we'd get back to work. Then two to three hours later it would start up again.

Have you played the game? What do you think about it?

I have played it quite a bit. The good thing about Sean's Dig was that the programmers and the artists were in the same office space so we got along better and we got to see the latest builds on the game all the time. Feedback was quick and all encompassing. I liked it way better than being in two separate buildings like on the Brian's Dig.
As for the game, some of the dialogue is silly and a few of the puzzles are just way too hard. But I like the drams and the themes, the music, and the environment. It was nice and long too and had good variety of puzzles. If I could change anything it would be the character designs and the resolution. I'd have made the game in 640x480 and paid for better characters designs. The ones we had were ok, but not great. And I think we should have made the power room robot puzzle easier. I had no clue that was such a hard puzzle. We all thought it was simple. Boy were we wrong.

Any advice you would like to give to young artists?

Yes. Life goes by too quickly. Don't panic, but clarify your vision and desires as soon as you can. Figure out what kind of artist you are, what kind of art makes you the happiest and then follow that direction with all you energy. Joseph Campbell said the key to happiness is to 'follow your bliss." Here is the exact quote:

"BILL MOYERS: Do you ever have the sense of... being helped by hidden hands?
JOSEPH CAMPBELL: All the time. It is miraculous. I even have a superstition that has grown on me as a result of invisible hands coming all the time - namely, that if you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. When you can see that, you begin to meet people who are in your field of bliss, and they open doors to you. I say, follow your bliss and don't be afraid, and doors will open where you didn't know they were going to be.
The young have the distinct advantage of having some time to explore this idea. It get harder when you get older.
My other piece of advice is to draw all the time, doodle, carry a sketchbook with you. I have seen bad artists become good artists just by drawing a lot. Each drawing is a learning experience, so give yourself as many chances to learn as possible.
And don't worry so much about your art. Work hard yes, but have no fear that your art will get to where you want it to go. It just takes time and practice."

Well, that's it thanks a lot for your time. Who is going to pay the coffees?

You are. I don't drink coffee. It tastes like liquefied cigarette ashes to me. But I'll pick up the tab for the tea. I think I am made of 90% black tea and 10% carbon.

March 2005
Copyright © 2005 Santiago Méndez.

Go back to the Exclusive Interviews.